by the Left Coast Rebel
Two campaigns that I am gunning for have recently had cam-stalker opposition plants do cam-stalkin’ things. It’s not entirely clear just who they are but one can certainly gather a theory or two. The first cam-stalker is thought to be from the Dem-Grayson camp in Kentucky and has been following the Paul campaign around, even filming him at his church. Creepy? You bet. Is this even legal, on private property? No comment:
Nice Rush tunes, follow the Rand Paul for Senate camp here. Read my writeups on Paul here and here. Next up we have a No Comment cam-stalker caught taping license plates. Ali Akbar, (the filmer), over @ 73Wire caught this guy in the act at a Hoffman camp meet and greet yesterday. Don’t the two guys look similiar as well? Watch it:
UPDATE: Reader M.V. had a question for any of you in the audience more lawyerly than I, here is what she said:
When people pull into a parking place for a charity event or any event that involves a candidate, if there is someone videotaping the license plates, would it be possible to pass the word to have someone stand in front of the video camera while someone else approaches the cars with a piece of paper to cover the license plates to prevent videotaping. Then, if the guy tries to remove the paper off the license plates, can he be charged with a tampering or such type of crime? If the cars are parked, I don’t think it would be illegal to cover the plates. Also, someone could deliberately stand in front
of the camera inside while the guy is trying to videotape.Just a thought and thanks for letting me get my two-cents worth in.
My two resident attorney readers, (as well as blogger, pay them a visit),weigh in on this question. First, Libertarian Advocate offers this up:
I don’t practice at all in the privacy law area, so you should take whatever I have to say here with that important caveat in mind, and in any event I can only speak in general terms as I’m not representing anyone. First, each state has its own privacy laws. Plainly, these two creeps are doing what they do for the purpose of soft intimidation, even if they ultimately do nothing at all with the footage.Followed by Transplanted Lawyer who offers up this :
If however, they are cops (unlikely), or FBI (also not very likely) then they can do probably do it, especially under USA PATRIOT but to what end? For spying and later punitive prosecution? That would chill fundamental BoR rights. If they are IRS and they use someone’s support of Rand Paul or Doug Hoffman to then bury them in audits, malicious prosecution comes to mind.
The property owner(s) can certainly demand to see ID, and if they refuse to show ID, either remove them from the premises or, preferably, call police to do so, as they would be trespassers at any point in time that the property owners decide they don’t want them there anymore.Probably just ACORNAUGHTS or Demoncrat campaign workers or SPLC POTOCK-OBOTS or SEIU-SLOBS hoping to provoke a fight or looking for grounds to file a BS harassment lawsuit.
In the end, they’re probably the lefties’ pathetic response to O’Keefe & Giles. Its best to do to them exactly what they’re doing. FILM THEM, FOLLOW THEM TO THEIR CAR, FILM THEIR TAGS and so on.
1. In most states, it is illegal to tamper with or obscure a vehicle’s license plate. Probably just an infraction, but still against the law. So taping something over a license plate would be, itself, a violation of law.Thank you guys for adding insight and making for great blogging.
2. The cam-stalker has only the right to record things that happen in public, or for which he is given permission to record. If he uses his right as a member of the public to record things that take place in public, that’s the extent of his right. So if someone stands in front of a vehicle’s license plate to place an object between the cam-stalker and the plate, the cam-stalker has no right to demand that the pedestrian stand aside. He’s not a cop.
3. In the first video, if the cam-stalker paid for a pancake breakfast, he’s probably paid for the right to be in the facility and to video what’s happening; it’s a quasi-public event anyway. Unless there is a specific reservation of the right to make recordings of the even on some kind of material related to the event. If the video is used for a commercial purpose, that raises some different issues. But he’s probably within his rights to take film of something
4. In M.V.’s hypo, and in the second video, the cam-stalker could probably pretty
easily move to a different location to take video, or if the frustration of his video activities is frustrated, he could possibly make an even more potent political point about people “being ashamed” of supporting a particular candidate or cause. So it seems like a bad move to me to try and obscure people’s license plates — maybe not an illegal move, depending on where and how it’s done, but not a smart move, either. The campaign worker in the second video did the right thing — embarass the cam-stalker into leaving rather than forcing his hand.
5. If you’re going to a campaign event but don’t want your presence there to be known, I frankly don’t have a lot of sympathy for you. The right of free speech does not necessarily guarantee the right to speak anonymously. There are plenty of ways (like blogging) you can air your point of view and still be anonymous — but when you’re out in public, people can see you.
6. This could be a tempest in a teapot. What is the cam-stalker going to do with this information, anyway? Many states restrict access to DMV registration databases so you can’t relate a plate number to a person without a subpoena, meaning you’d need to get the assistance of a court to get the DMV to cough up the data. If the cam-stalker gets a list of license plate numbers and can’t do anything more with it, so what?
5 comments:
I don't practice at all in the privacy law area, so you should take whatever I have to say here with that important caveat in mind, and in any event I can only speak in general terms as I'm not representing anyone.
First, each state has its own privacy laws. Plainly, these two creeps are doing what they do for the purpose of soft intimidation, even if they ultimately do nothing at all with the footage.
If however, they are cops (unlikely), or FBI (also not very likely) then they can do probably do it, especially under USA PATRIOT but to what end? For spying and later punitive prosecution? That would chill fundamental BoR rights. If they are IRS and they use someone's support of Rand Paul or Doug Hoffman to then bury them in audits, malicious prosecution comes to mind.
The property owner(s) can certainly demand to see ID, and if they refuse to show ID, either remove them from the premises or, preferably, call police to do so, as they would be trespassers at any point in time that the property owners decide they don't want them there anymore.
Probably just ACORNAUGHTS or Demoncrat campaign workers or SPLC POTOCK-OBOTS or SEIU-SLOBS hoping to provoke a fight or looking for grounds to file a BS harassment lawsuit.
In the end, they're probably the lefties' pathetic response to O'Keefe & Giles. Its best to do to them exactly what they're doing. FILM THEM, FOLLOW THEM TO THEIR CAR, FILM THEIR TAGS and so on.
Once I realized the guy was thought to be a Grayson (a Republican, not Democrat opponent) campaign worker, I see what I wrote above is totally off point. The guy is just trying to provoke a reaction likely and wants to create a scene where Rand Paul supporters come off as bat-s**t crazy paranoids. Let him film all he wants, but film him right back. Don't engage him in convos unless he initiates it.
As to M.V.'s question, my thoughts are:
1. In most states, it is illegal to tamper with or obscure a vehicle's license plate. Probably just an infraction, but still against the law. So taping something over a license plate would be, itself, a violation of law.
2. The cam-stalker has only the right to record things that happen in public, or for which he is given permission to record. If he uses his right as a member of the public to record things that take place in public, that's the extent of his right. So if someone stands in front of a vehicle's license plate to place an object between the cam-stalker and the plate, the cam-stalker has no right to demand that the pedestrian stand aside. He's not a cop.
3. In the first video, if the cam-stalker paid for a pancake breakfast, he's probably paid for the right to be in the facility and to video what's happening; it's a quasi-public event anyway. Unless there is a specific reservation of the right to make recordings of the even on some kind of material related to the event. If the video is used for a commercial purpose, that raises some different issues. But he's probably within his rights to take film of something
4. In M.V.'s hypo, and in the second video, the cam-stalker could probably pretty easily move to a different location to take video, or if the frustration of his video activities is frustrated, he could possibly make an even more potent political point about people "being ashamed" of supporting a particular candidate or cause. So it seems like a bad move to me to try and obscure people's license plates — maybe not an illegal move, depending on where and how it's done, but not a smart move, either. The campaign worker in the second video did the right thing — embarass the cam-stalker into leaving rather than forcing his hand.
5. If you're going to a campaign event but don't want your presence there to be known, I frankly don't have a lot of sympathy for you. The right of free speech does not necessarily guarantee the right to speak anonymously. There are plenty of ways (like blogging) you can air your point of view and still be anonymous — but when you're out in public, people can see you.
6. This could be a tempest in a teapot. What is the cam-stalker going to do with this information, anyway? Many states restrict access to DMV registration databases so you can't relate a plate number to a person without a subpoena, meaning you'd need to get the assistance of a court to get the DMV to cough up the data. If the cam-stalker gets a list of license plate numbers and can't do anything more with it, so what?
@ LA and TL – Thankyou, I will post your points.
LCR, I've got some linkies up for you today! Great post. How come you are always locating the lefty stalkers?
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