Thinking Rationally... or The Thinker Part #3

by: Les Carpenter
Rational Nation USA
Liberty -vs- Tyranny

Rodin - The Thinker

I was asked recently by a Rational Nation USA regular about President Obama and if he could possibly be compared to Mao, China's tyrannical and brutal communist leader. After a period given to clarifying my thoughts on the subject I decided to respond. My response I hope reflects intellectual clarity and is absence right leaning hyperbole.

First I will present the question as advanced followed by my response.

The question:

Les, sometimes I wonder if what Obama wants by fairness would ultimately
become very much like it is in Communist countries. China under Mao may be a good example. I never hear anyone comparing it so I wonder if I am far out in left field. Am I?

My response:

Obama is a product of the "democratic socialist" movement. I often use the term statist which essentially means a belief that the state through it's elected representatives and senators has the power to determine the nation's course.

As society has grown, along with it has grown the demands placed on the state by the people. Keep in mind the response to the Great Depression by FDR and the "New Dealers". Add to that Kennedy's "New Frontier" and Johnson's "Great Society" and the stage set long ago has been trending in the natural course one would and should expect.

Republicans, specifically the "neo-cons" (new conservatives) are just as statist and interested in setting the agenda and controlling people through the power of the state as are the "democratic socialists." The difference lies only in that which they wish to control. I am known for saying the difference in the republican and democrat statist is merely the color and shape of their respective mascots.

It is my belief that as bad as Obama may be this nation would be by far worse with either Santorum or Gingrich. Romney would actually, in my opinion be on a par with Obama, in other words were he elected president it would be a wash. Keep in mind here I am referring specifically to statism and that the state should control the reins the power rather than the people.

Back to Obama - "Democratic socialism", which Obama certainly personifies believe in the democratic process of voting and in the rule of law. Obama is no Mao, however his democratic socialist beliefs guide him the direction of collectivism as being a ultimately superior economic system than capitalism. Utopia is still sought after and likely always will be. Irrespective of the reality that it is likely unattainable.

In a nutshell democratic socialism (as it exists in Europe) may very well lead to
what we currently see in countries such as Portugal and Greece. The entities the
people of these nation hold responsible are the governments, yet they still expect more of the same that helped cause the problem in the first place. The US is only
a few years behind them.

Obama is the culmination of many many years of both democratic and republican trough feeding if you will. As we continue towards the economic abyss, and the continuing erosion of our liberties there is much blame to be passed around. Obama is the rightful recipient of some of this blame. To say he is the only one as many people do (I know you don't) is like sticking your head where the sun don't shine and then proclaiming you see light.

I could say much more but this is it for now.

On the heels of this exchange I became involved in a discussion with another Rational Nation USA regular that provided me the opportunity to further expand on the original question and my thoughts.

My response to my reader:
What I don't understand is why the truth pisses people off. The facts are this country has been moving in the fascist/socialist direction for some time. Both liberals and conservatives are responsible and the people have been accepting of socialist programs since FDR. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, prescription drug coverage, etc. Now many expect all this and more. One need only watch OWS and the many who want a free college education... and they really think that is a right.

The democratic party would be more accurately called the Social Democratic party today and given the Republican's current mentality it ought the called the democratic Fascist Republican party, both more accurately reflect the economic principles they advocate. Socialism and Fascism are both socialist economic models. They simply have different methods of arriving at the same end. Which is greater government regulation of the means of production control of our personal lives.

I am not pointing fingers and puking up some hyperbole or using tried and try platitudes about how liberals are evil socialists. In fact if I were to use the term evil it would be against Santorum, Gingrich, Perry; all of the republican party. In fact I have spent more of my time lately (and rightfully so) questioning the validity and integrity of neo-con republican politicians than I have Obama and the democrats. This is not because I think Obama and the democrats are right on all things, or even necessarily that he (they) are doing a good job, although in realty Obama has probably done no worse than GWB, and it is true as well that the republican party has shown little willingness to work with the democrats. There is of course a reason for this, you and I both know what that is.

Yes you do use inflammatory rhetoric as well as anyone I've read and I have been guilty of the same. We both know it is nothing more than red meat for the faithful. Maybe be we are, or have been part of the problem. I'm willing to consider this if you are.

At any rate just call me a classical liberal with strong libertarian leanings, my brother and son (both more more educated than I) tell me I've always been just that. Leave it to youth. Fact is I'm ashamed of what the neo-cons, the socons, and the entire crop of self proclaimed conservatives have done to the real conservative movement. The one that apparently died after Goldwater.

The point of the above is simply this, there is a great deal of anger and worry within the American people and their psyche. The intentionally divisive rhetoric coming out of both major political parties is both unsettling and counter productive. Until such time as We the People demand both the republican and democratic party to cooperate in finding solutions to the pressing economic issues of our time not much will change. As it stands right now, until we do something to force real meaningful change we're simply going to continue to get screwed by those we elect to represent us.

What say you?


  1. Reason alone can be perverted. Men are at our best when our hearts and our minds coincide. Ideas like "common good" and "God is on our side" turn us from the pusuit of truth toward corruption.

    I remind you that individual freedom is the goal. People can only choose the path to become who they are meant to be when they can choose their own paths. Slaves can only choose to be good slaves.

    I feel you have strayed onto the path of submission to those who oppose freedom in your thoughts above. The party of abolition and civil rights is not fascist. Santorum and Gingrich are of the last American politicians to cut the statist budget. Obama will crush the hopes of human freedom for billions in another four years.

    We are imperfect and can only pursue good or as our founding fathers stated it "happiness."

    1. With all due respect both of the mentioned straw men don't give a rat's arse about what you think or profess to care about. They are both statists of the worse kind. Just as much as Obama is or ever was.

      Liberty goes beyond a few feel good platitudes about freedom and red meat hyperbole tossed freely to the faithful. It requires consistent principled adherence to the classical liberal principles of founders such as Thomas Jefferson to name one.

      The only republican right now even remotely true to the constitution, and consistently so is Ron Paul. So, are you supporting him, or are you supporting one of the straw candidates?

      And no I not straying, my fierce individualism will not permit it. My Randian and classical liberal beliefs will allow it.

      However, living in society does require considering opposing views, being willing to work together to solve shared problems and maintaining intellectual honesty. Precisely as our founding fathers did during that very hot summer of1789 in Philadelphia.


Commenting here is a privilege, not a right. Comments that contain cursing or insults and those failing to add to the discussion will be summarily deleted.